One project that I've been dreaming of doing for the longest time, probably since I first saw the Southern Cross part of Robotech, has been to create my own set of Southern Cross armor and from the ATAC in particular. This project has been off and on in the back of my mind for ages and it wasn't until getting active with this site (originally SG-C.net) and learning more about costuming in general and seeing what people have done with the armor from various shows and movies has since made me realize that this project is doable. The question is: how?

I realize that the standard and preferred method of doing a project like this is to vac-form it, however there's the matter of space and cost involved with vac-forming. Cost is something that I can work around by acquiring everything over time to spread the cost out and once the armor is done I could potentially make more and sell it; although at 5'7" & just under 160 the armor might be a bit small for most people and would almost certainly limit sales. Space, however, is another issue that's much more difficult to get around. I live in a 1,500 sq. foot townhouse like condo with a two car garage and nowhere to fit the vac-forming table, the plastic oven, the stones/bucks, and the molds as it is I barely have enough room for everything that I already have. So I'm looking for potential alternatives to vac-forming that is both practical and relatively inexpensive and preferably not too labor intensive either. Tall order I imagine but I'm sure that there are options out there and I'm willing to even entertain ideas for making one offs although I'd like to be able to make more than which I know vac-forming is perfect for.

Here's some reference pics, the ones in blue is the armor I'm looking at doing.

Something like this should be done as a group project. Its a big project and I don't see how you can get around vacforming it.

There's always fiberglassbut that throws out your space and cost requirements. Vaccuform would be your best bet I think.

Russ

Fiberglass is an option but I've read that it gets messy and the resin is rather toxic. I think I read of an alternative but I can't quite remember what it was, that's something I have to research. So far it seems like that vacuforming is probably my best bet but I want to explore all of my options first before committing to vacuforming. I suppose that on the bright side, if I do end up going with vacuforming then I can work on making all sorts of other things in order to justify the cost although I'm not sure how much of a market there is for armor designed for smaller people. One of the other things that I might end up making if get a vacuforming setup is a set of Clonetrooper armor since the stuff is 1) expensive, and 2) made for people much taller and larger than me.

If anybody has any other suggestions please feel free to post them, I'm open to any and all suggestions and ideas. Also, if anybody out there who's roughly my size and would possibly like a set please let me know since any potential sales would help justify the cost of a vacuforming setup. Alternately, if anybody in the LA/OC area already has a setup and would be willing to let use theirs I'd be very grateful; it probably would be very expensive to ship the stones/bucks out of state for vacforming wouldn't it?

hey man - i posted over on TDH as well

I think vac forming is definately the way to go. you comment in the last post is also the other way to go. I know of a few 501 garrisons that have Garrison Vac tables - it might be an option to ask for access to one (eg in my situation, I know of at least 2 builders in UK with vac tables, and so would never consider making one)

FG is a nice alternative, but I have issues with FG armour as a whole (its hardness is a problem compared to nice ABS/HIPS)

the non-toxic resin alternative is called Aqua resin in US and Jesmonite in UK. Its a nice water based resin alternative, but wot u get in terms of convenience you pay back in price.

another option is pepakura. any1 here with 3D modelling skills to offer can help, or alternatively skip over on TDH takes commissions regularly. the HALO guys have used this technique to fantastic effect.

as for armor for people 5'7'' ish - theres a big potential market for these I think, esp.ly amongst the women costumers. Stuff like the stormtrooper, clonetrooper etc are all made for 5'11'' to 6' plus guys with lots of cutting down required.

However, surfing off other SW sites - I would say armor sales are generally down given the whole economic situation.

The armor just reminded me of the JinRoh armor I did when I was in Hi-Impact!

I think that I really need to make friends with someone who already has a vacforming setup near me in order to pull this project off without jumping through all sorts of hoops to do it. Still, I haven't completely ruled out the resin coated Pepakura method although I don't know how well that works in comparison to vacforming.

Are you thinking of making the originals and just need someone who has a Vacuforming set up? Because if that's the case I could help out with VERY little problem...for a small fee of course.

I'd want my own set

Other then that, if your going to provide everything to make them I don't see why I couldn't make them for you. Unless we start getting into more then 10 or so Full sets that is. No wife, no kids but I DO have a life lol. Cross that bridge when we come to it though. When done I could eather drop ship them to those who buy them, you reembursing me for the S&H cost or I could send them back to you enmass. After the runs over or you want them back I'd send you the originals.

how about wonderflex [ez fast,good detail]

Given how much vacformed armor tends to go for I'd probably try to make my own and just get them vacformed. While I appreciate the offer to help you, unfortunately, live a bit far from me to make working together on this very practical; it would probably cost me a small fortune to ship everything back & forth to you from the bucks to the finished pieces. And I'm not sure how I could commission you to do the work since we live clear across the country from each other. This is probably going to have to be one of those projects that if I want it done I'm just going to have to do it myself.

Time to resurrect an old thread as I'm once again toying with the idea of doing this. I'm thinking casting the armor in either fiberglass or more likely one of the fiberglass alternatives that are less toxic and perhaps a little easier to work with. This might take me a while but having been reading around the RPF for a couple of months has made me really itch to try this.

I think I'm probably going to start with the helmet and work my way down from there. My thinking is to start with a cheapy Roman style attic helm (think Tommy Trojan and Marvin the Martian) since it has the basic shape, namely the bowl and the neck piece. From there I'll make the forehead piece, the crest, the ears, and the visor/face plate. I think I can make the forehead piece by cutting out a piece of cardstock in the right shape and adding clay onto it in sort of a Pepakura style. The crest I might do the same or just lay out clay and work from there since it's a very simple shape and design. The ears I'll just sculpt and mold one and cast it twice and maybe do the same for the "feathers". The face mask is going to be tricky and I can't think of any real shortcuts at the moment, maybe use a cheap airsoft/paintball mask as a base for clay; the benefit of that method is that I can use a paintball visor (with and added tint) for the actual visor since I don't have the means of producing a custom visor and getting it custom made would probably be costly.

For the arms and legs I'm thinking I might try just making one side and simply cast it twice, think this will work or would it better to cast a left and right side? At the very least I can get away with this for the two shoulder pieces and quite possibly the thigh armor too.

The tricky part of this all, aside from the sculpting and casting, will to be to try and figure out a way of making the armored "shorts" easily removable or accessible for making head calls easier. I really don't want to have to make an emergency head call and work for minutes trying to remove the armor before I have an accident, that would be a bad thing.

Finally, instead of painting I want to try using vinyl dye on it so I don't have to worry about chipping and scratching. Hopefully I can find the right colors for it, otherwise I'll just have to live with spray paint and a clear coat for protection.

I'm about 75% done with my vac-table and oven. I've built a 24" and a 48" frame and my oven will accomodate both. Get your forms made and then we can go from there.

Your forms need to be stiff and heat resistant. For your situation and needs I would recommend creating your armor out of styrene then pull molds off of that, then pour something like ultracast into your molds so you can create your forms.

Or just wear the styrene armor. LOL

Thanks for the offer, Dean. When I get started I might have to take you up on the offer although I'm partial to idea of making it from a laminate like (but not necessarily) fiberglass. The main reason for this is that it means one less thing to store (no bucks, just molds) and less trimming; for some reason I'm really leery of the idea of cutting out forms from the styrene, too many thoughts of stray cuts going into the form or wavy edges. But I suppose there's the benefit of being a little quicker than casting and it's far easier to make more if I find there's interest in me doing a run in which case I'd definitely give you a percentage of what I make for using your vac machine.

You also need to be realistic here. This is an absurdly complicated costume that will take you easily a year to complete. I suggest you work on your master models before you even consider what materials you're going to use. Months from now when you're actually ready to go into production and make some armor you might be living in a bigger home or someone we know might have a building we can work in, or whatever. Don't make any decisions yet, you're a long ways away from production.

Agreed, just doing mental plans in my head for now. The beauty of the whole thing is that I can go either way once the molds are made, it will be just a matter of what materials to pour inside of it. At the very least I'm fairly certain that I'm going to make the helmet as a hybrid with the "ears" being a cast piece that I'll glue and/or screw on to the helmet and the wing I think I'll cast too. The only thing that I'm really sure if I'll make from a stiff material (styrene or laminated resin) will be the pauldrons since the anime seems to suggest that they're flexible but that's a bridge that I'll cross when I come to it, I still have to sculpt it first.

Yep, make your gross details with the vac or the fiberglass, the small details should be resin.